Accounts, die betrügen oder beleidigen

[felix]

Ich habe heute 444 Spiele gelöscht.
Man kommt auf eine Liste verdächtiger Paare, wenn zwei Spieler auffallend oft miteinander am gleichen Tisch sind oder wenn sie von ihrem Partner zu oft hohe Bomben erhalten.
Die Paare auf dieser Liste werden automatisiert untersucht auf auffälliges Gewinnverhältnis, wenn die beiden als Gegner spielen. Das gibt eine viel kleinere Liste, die ich mit Stichproben anschaue. Es sind zum guten Teil die Namen, die hier im Forum auftauchen.

Neu ist, dass für alle Spiele dieser Paare die Statistik der 4 Spieler zurückgesetzt wird. Meine (gewonnenen oder verlorenen) Tichuansagen, Doppelsiege, Spielgewinne und -verluste sind weg, wie wenn das Spiel nicht stattgefunden hätte.
Bitte wendet nicht ein, dass sei unfair, wenn man trotz Betrug ein Spiel gewonnen hat, welches neu aus der Wertung fällt. Es hat in beiden Teams einen Spieler der betrügt. Und wenn nur meine Siege gegen diese Spieler gewertet würden, so hätte ich gegen diese Spieler eine 100% Gewinnrate, zum Nachteil von allen, die nicht gegen diese Spieler am Tisch waren.

Also seid nicht erstaunt, wenn ihr kleine Abweichungen im Leaderboard feststellt.

 

[Luftir]

War zwar nicht gegen mich - aber geht halt gar nicht. Sperrt den bitte.

 

[uhrensohn]

Bitte sperrt Pikkis. Immer wenn er verliert (Und manchmal einfach so) lässt er jeden Zug zum Ende auslaufen um zu nerven/damit die Leute rausgehen. Völlig daneben der Typ. Unterirdisches Verhalten. Das letzte Tichu ging wahrscheinlich 45‘ wegen seinem Verhalten ab Runde1!!!

Jep, bei mir heißt er nur noch "Erbsenhirn" und ist auf der roten Liste ganz weit oben. Einfach nicht spielen, wenn er da ist.

 

[Luftir]

Bitte sperrt Pikkis. Immer wenn er verliert (Und manchmal einfach so) lässt er jeden Zug zum Ende auslaufen um zu nerven/damit die Leute rausgehen. Völlig daneben der Typ. Unterirdisches Verhalten. Das letzte Tichu ging wahrscheinlich 45‘ wegen seinem Verhalten ab Runde1!!!

 

[felix]

Sssun & Sidwell (schlupften sich in drei Runden Bomben zu und zerrissen dafür sogar eigene Straßen).

Sssun, Sidwell und Kiwell sind gesperrt.
Oder sie schupfen dem "Gegner" Sssun 1xPhoenix, 1xAs, 1xDrache und wenn es Sssun immer noch nicht zum Sieg reicht, verzichtet mein Mate auf das Spielen seiner Bombe.

 

[Schoenix]

Sssun & Sidwell (schlupften sich in drei Runden Bomben zu und zerrissen dafür sogar eigene Straßen).

 

[maist]

These two giving each other the card for a bomb 3 times in our match. Anhang anzeigen 149

I watched the replay and the only one that looks suspicious is the second one. You should look at their other replays to check how often this happens compared to how often it is possible.

 

[Coenraad]

These two giving each other the card for a bomb 3 times in our match.

 

[maist]

Specific category being the highest ranked players on this app, who are involved on this forum, and who I assume must be the most experienced and knowledgeable group about how the app works. Seeing specific differences in the connection behavior that only comes from players over level 20 that I can see interacting with each other here really makes me think something is awry. And why is it always when their opponents are about to score big? No, I haven't played 50 games with everyone on the leaderboard, and I am still willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think my doubt is completely unfounded.



The first part of your message is the only reason I posted here in the first place. I know a crash or connection issue can happen at any time and with any player. I don't think every round reset triggered in an unfavorable condition for me means another co-conspiriter against ικαρος has been uncovered.

Simply when I saw a particular issue appear during a particularly decisive scenario, in the same way that I have seen before from players I see as similar, I couldn't help but draw the conclusion that something similar is happening. If you are not abusing the game connections then great, I will continue to play fairly with and against you. If I have identified you as a cheater when you are not cheating then I apologize. I have also been falsely accused of unsportsmanlike play on this app so I understand how frustrating it can be. Unfortunately the nature of this issue I'm presenting is not as provable and evidenced for either of us as more common cheating posted here. No replay will ever show the round in question.

For what it's worth I am certain that players with issues like this are not always replaced by AI. So for me it seems a reasonable conclusion that as a last ditch effort to avoid a loss, a player may attempt to abuse their connection with the other players in order to reset a round and undo an unwinnable outcome. In fact I can recall one of the first instances I noticed this where a middle-round grand tichu and near-double win was undone. One opposing player started the connection flickering but failed to do anything but delay until the next turn, upon which the other opposing player seemed to catch on and do the same thing (successfully this time) on their own turn.

If not with you in particular, I think there's something underhanded happening and I hope others are now aware of and watchful for this problem.

What happened to you is understandably frustrating. If it is any reassurance, I have played enough games with Uhrensohn that I am pretty confident that this was not intentional.

Usually when he gets pissed off like that he will just quit

 

[uhrensohn]

Alright, fair enough, I see your point and I’ll keep an eye on it.

I also won’t rule out that constantly minimizing the app during a round or toggling the WiFi might cause problems. But honestly, it’s not really worth it for the person doing it, since they’ll usually get kicked out of the app and end up with an “exit” recorded in the game log.

I guess next time I could just hit the “leave game” button right away, but then I’d be giving up the chance to reconnect if the connection stabilizes.

I apologize for the trouble

 

[ικαρος]

Care to share what "specific category of players" you mean? It would be good to know.

I have been guilty of this before, albeit unintentionally; I often switch out of the app to respond to a message. It doesn't happen as frequently anymore because I switched to using messages on my computer. I also had a game a while ago where this happened immediately after I completed a successful Tichu and then a player disconnected, resetting the round. Afterwards he reached out to apologize and told me that he was on a train and it went in a tunnel.

So unless you notice a specific player doing this a lot, maybe it is best to give them the benefit of the doubt?

Specific category being the highest ranked players on this app, who are involved on this forum, and who I assume must be the most experienced and knowledgeable group about how the app works. Seeing specific differences in the connection behavior that only comes from players over level 20 that I can see interacting with each other here really makes me think something is awry. And why is it always when their opponents are about to score big? No, I haven't played 50 games with everyone on the leaderboard, and I am still willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think my doubt is completely unfounded.

A crash can just as easily happen in round one or round three. When it does, you’ll usually see “nc” pop up, or the game just freezes. Honestly, I don’t think it’s a network issue, those Wi‑Fi bars are full after all. But every now and then, pacing around the house and toggling the WiFi switch a few times actually seems to help. Could that mess up the connection? Sure. But if I just leave it alone, it stays stuck on “nc.”



And these crashes tend to come in clusters, several games in a row on the same evening. That’s exactly what happened last night. Maybe that crazy thunderstorm had something to do with it? In the game with Maist, I got knocked out in round two or three, either just before or just after our match. And in Baddi’s game, it almost happened too, right around the same time. Then everything went back to normal.



Maist can vouch for me, I told him right away that I was having connection issues.



You and I have only played together once before, so don’t draw any grand conclusions from that.



P.S. I actually had a bomb lined up for your play, knowing full well that quads don’t beat a straight… Maybe that’s what threw me off.



Anyway, I got booted from the app and switched to AI (you’ll notice my cards turn blue). I still got the loss and an exit. So in the end, it didn’t change the outcome. Same deal in the game with Maist: loss and exit. The game with Baddi ended in a ~900‑point win, so leaving that one overnight would’ve made zero sense

The first part of your message is the only reason I posted here in the first place. I know a crash or connection issue can happen at any time and with any player. I don't think every round reset triggered in an unfavorable condition for me means another co-conspiriter against ικαρος has been uncovered.

Simply when I saw a particular issue appear during a particularly decisive scenario, in the same way that I have seen before from players I see as similar, I couldn't help but draw the conclusion that something similar is happening. If you are not abusing the game connections then great, I will continue to play fairly with and against you. If I have identified you as a cheater when you are not cheating then I apologize. I have also been falsely accused of unsportsmanlike play on this app so I understand how frustrating it can be. Unfortunately the nature of this issue I'm presenting is not as provable and evidenced for either of us as more common cheating posted here. No replay will ever show the round in question.

For what it's worth I am certain that players with issues like this are not always replaced by AI. So for me it seems a reasonable conclusion that as a last ditch effort to avoid a loss, a player may attempt to abuse their connection with the other players in order to reset a round and undo an unwinnable outcome. In fact I can recall one of the first instances I noticed this where a middle-round grand tichu and near-double win was undone. One opposing player started the connection flickering but failed to do anything but delay until the next turn, upon which the other opposing player seemed to catch on and do the same thing (successfully this time) on their own turn.

If not with you in particular, I think there's something underhanded happening and I hope others are now aware of and watchful for this problem.

 

[uhrensohn]

A crash can just as easily happen in round one or round three. When it does, you’ll usually see “nc” pop up, or the game just freezes. Honestly, I don’t think it’s a network issue, those Wi‑Fi bars are full after all. But every now and then, pacing around the house and toggling the WiFi switch a few times actually seems to help. Could that mess up the connection? Sure. But if I just leave it alone, it stays stuck on “nc.”



And these crashes tend to come in clusters, several games in a row on the same evening. That’s exactly what happened last night. Maybe that crazy thunderstorm had something to do with it? In the game with Maist, I got knocked out in round two or three, either just before or just after our match. And in Baddi’s game, it almost happened too, right around the same time. Then everything went back to normal.



Maist can vouch for me, I told him right away that I was having connection issues.



You and I have only played together once before, so don’t draw any grand conclusions from that.



P.S. I actually had a bomb lined up for your play, knowing full well that quads don’t beat a straight… Maybe that’s what threw me off.



Anyway, I got booted from the app and switched to AI (you’ll notice my cards turn blue). I still got the loss and an exit. So in the end, it didn’t change the outcome. Same deal in the game with Maist: loss and exit. The game with Baddi ended in a ~900‑point win, so leaving that one overnight would’ve made zero sense

 

[maist]

I've seen many connection issues as well in this app. Another thing I have seen is a specific pattern occuring in specific situations involving a specific category of players. If it's just a coincidence, great. See you next time.

Care to share what "specific category of players" you mean? It would be good to know.

I have been guilty of this before, albeit unintentionally; I often switch out of the app to respond to a message. It doesn't happen as frequently anymore because I switched to using messages on my computer. I also had a game a while ago where this happened immediately after I completed a successful Tichu and then a player disconnected, resetting the round. Afterwards he reached out to apologize and told me that he was on a train and it went in a tunnel.

So unless you notice a specific player doing this a lot, maybe it is best to give them the benefit of the doubt?

 

[ικαρος]

Sorry to break the news to you, but what you describe is a synchronization problem when you played your bomb. I guess @felix can confirm: tichu.one is not a server based application. The four player apps communicate with each other to synchronize each move. Now here is the catch: what happens if it is player's A turn. A plays a card and at the same time player B plays his bomb before receiving player A's move? A synchronization error occurs because player B from his point of view played the bomb before player A. But when B's move reaches the phone of player A. A's move already happend and a bomb can no longer be played before the move...

Network latency or temporary reconnects between apps increase the risk of bomb synchronization issues to occur even further.

Based on my observation problems with bombs played are causing most of the "wait 10 seconds .. round needs to be restarted" issues we encounter in this app.

Can you exploit this? I guess, to some extend yes. You have to time playing your bomb with the move of another player. Converting a certain tichu win of your opponents to a redeal of all cards is an advantage. But you have to guess the correct timing and then there are still network transmition times, etc. So you can try but still need some luck to make it happen and with a bomb you have a high chance to defeat a tichu within the rules and this will normally give more points then a redeal ...

But back to your example: you played the bomb yourself and most probably uhrensohn played his turn at the same time and then the behavior you describe happens.
[/QUOTE]

To be clear, the bomb was played on my turn.

D
A C
B

turn moves to A
A plays draw
turn moves to B
B plays bomb (i've seen it happen without a bomb too, for example playing an ace pair with one card left)
turn moves to C
flickering connection status and round reset

As I said in my last message, I would be happy to know that it's just a coincidence. I agree that the nature of the application and realities of real-life connection fallibility can result in frustrating situations for anyone. However, several times now (and only after very big plays!!) I've seen players have this behavior, which is consistent and repeated and is notably different from a typical connection issue we might experience. The key differences for me are that the connection status flickers between "___ has connection problems" and "___ is back" until the turn timer has expired, rather than cutting out as usual. It can be intentional or unintentional but it's happening and over time I have become more and more suspicious about why it always has the same result in the same situations from the same players.

 

[Heywen]

[/QUOTE]

uhrensohn

Today I played a match with gurgle as my partner and uhrenson + Amr1307 as our opponents. In the final round, my team was up by ~200 points and Amr1307 called tichu. I had a great hand including a basically unbeatable bomb, which I played as I thought it to be my second to last draw. Immediately after I played, uhrenson was given the turn. Instead of passing his turn and accepting his defeat, he chose to delay his turn and continuously disconnect/reconnect to the match. I have seen this bewildering behavior from other players in the past but this was the first time I realized what was going on. By continually connecting/disconnecting, uhrensohn initiated a round reset due to internal error, delaying their unavoidable defeat (which happened anyway after the round reset). This behavior is obviously extremely childish and is most certainly cheating, by using the nature of the online medium in which we are playing to bend the rules and give themself an unfair advantage in receiving a second chance to somehow pull out a double + tichu or grand tichu for a victory. As an aside, I expect uhrensohn acted out of their perceived embarrassment of losing to a team of players under level 10.

Sorry to break the news to you, but what you describe is a synchronization problem when you played your bomb. I guess @felix can confirm: tichu.one is not a server based application. The four player apps communicate with each other to synchronize each move. Now here is the catch: what happens if it is player's A turn. A plays a card and at the same time player B plays his bomb before receiving player A's move? A synchronization error occurs because player B from his point of view played the bomb before player A. But when B's move reaches the phone of player A. A's move already happend and a bomb can no longer be played before the move...

Network latency or temporary reconnects between apps increase the risk of bomb synchronization issues to occur even further.

Based on my observation problems with bombs played are causing most of the "wait 10 seconds .. round needs to be restarted" issues we encounter in this app.

Can you exploit this? I guess, to some extend yes. You have to time playing your bomb with the move of another player. Converting a certain tichu win of your opponents to a redeal of all cards is an advantage. But you have to guess the correct timing and then there are still network transmition times, etc. So you can try but still need some luck to make it happen and with a bomb you have a high chance to defeat a tichu within the rules and this will normally give more points then a redeal ...

But back to your example: you played the bomb yourself and most probably uhrensohn played his turn at the same time and then the behavior you describe happens.

 

[ικαρος]

Mind sharing some of whatever you’re on?

Today I got kicked out of two games entirely, and in another one it was really close because I kept getting “nc” (no connection) messages.
But the game doesn’t pause just because a player gets frustrated and quits, or because they have connection issues. And the loss still gets counted against the account anyway, so there’s no real advantage to doing that.
Maybe take a minute to learn how the rules actually work

I've seen many connection issues as well in this app. Another thing I have seen is a specific pattern occuring in specific situations involving a specific category of players. If it's just a coincidence, great. See you next time.

 

[uhrensohn]

uhrensohn

Today I played a match with gurgle as my partner and uhrenson + Amr1307 as our opponents. In the final round, my team was up by ~200 points and Amr1307 called tichu. I had a great hand including a basically unbeatable bomb, which I played as I thought it to be my second to last draw. Immediately after I played, uhrenson was given the turn. Instead of passing his turn and accepting his defeat, he chose to delay his turn and continuously disconnect/reconnect to the match. I have seen this bewildering behavior from other players in the past but this was the first time I realized what was going on. By continually connecting/disconnecting, uhrensohn initiated a round reset due to internal error, delaying their unavoidable defeat (which happened anyway after the round reset). This behavior is obviously extremely childish and is most certainly cheating, by using the nature of the online medium in which we are playing to bend the rules and give themself an unfair advantage in receiving a second chance to somehow pull out a double + tichu or grand tichu for a victory. As an aside, I expect uhrensohn acted out of their perceived embarrassment of losing to a team of players under level 10.

Mind sharing some of whatever you’re on?

Today I got kicked out of two games entirely, and in another one it was really close because I kept getting “nc” (no connection) messages.
But the game doesn’t pause just because a player gets frustrated and quits, or because they have connection issues. And the loss still gets counted against the account anyway, so there’s no real advantage to doing that.
Maybe take a minute to learn how the rules actually work

 

[ικαρος]

uhrensohn

Today I played a match with gurgle as my partner and uhrenson + Amr1307 as our opponents. In the final round, my team was up by ~200 points and Amr1307 called tichu. I had a great hand including a basically unbeatable bomb, which I played as I thought it to be my second to last draw. Immediately after I played, uhrenson was given the turn. Instead of passing his turn and accepting his defeat, he chose to delay his turn and continuously disconnect/reconnect to the match. I have seen this bewildering behavior from other players in the past but this was the first time I realized what was going on. By continually connecting/disconnecting, uhrensohn initiated a round reset due to internal error, delaying their unavoidable defeat (which happened anyway after the round reset). This behavior is obviously extremely childish and is most certainly cheating, by using the nature of the online medium in which we are playing to bend the rules and give themself an unfair advantage in receiving a second chance to somehow pull out a double + tichu or grand tichu for a victory. As an aside, I expect uhrensohn acted out of their perceived embarrassment of losing to a team of players under level 10.

 

[Luftir]

김나현 und 짹짹

 

[uhrensohn]

유동이 umgehend sperren, der treibt ein großangelegtes Cheating-System mit diversen Helferaccounts.

Und vor allem müsste man mal integrieren, dass die Spiele dieser Accounts halt wirklich gelöscht werden. Das wurde in der Vergangenheit zwar häufig angekündigt, passiert aber im System meines Wissens nach nicht wirklich? Zumindest nicht automatisiert. Auf der anderen Seite kommt es aber immer mal wieder vor, dass irgendwelche technischen Ausscheidungen oder Spiele, bei denen man niemals eine Karte gespielt hat, per se als Niederlagen nachgetragen werden. Sowas darf keine Einbahnstraße zu Lasten der Spieler sein.
Vielleicht kann man ja da was implementieren?